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- Israeli Army Admits They Shot AP Photographer
Foreign Affairs News
Source: Haaretz Daily (Israel)
Published: 11/17/00
Posted on 11/17/2000 16:31:23 PST by Antiwar Republican
Army says U.S. photographer hit by Israeli gunfire
The IDF acknowledged Friday that Israeli gunfire was responsible for the wounding of the American photographer shot last week in Bethlehem. Yola Monakhov, 26, was on assignment for The Associated Press last Saturday when she was shot in the abdomen. She suffered extensive internal injuries and fractures to the pelvis and underwent two operations at Jerusalem's Hadassah Hospital, where she is recuperating.
"As far as we understand, it was Israeli gunfire," Major General Giora Eiland, the army Chief of Operations, told reporters at a briefing. "We are still investigating the circumstances of the shooting." Previously, the army said it had no evidence of a journalist being shot that afternoon. An army spokesman, Yarden Vatikay, had said a soldier fired only one live round very accurately at the leg of a Palestinian man. The army also had suggested that Monakhov may have been shot by a Palestinian bullet.
Eiland said it might take as long as two weeks before the investigation was complete. He said a physical reconstruction of the incident was planned. A police ballistics lab is now examining the bullet that was removed from Monakhov's abdomen on Wednesday.
On Saturday, Monakhov had gone to look around the streets surrounding Rachel's Tomb, on the main road into Bethlehem. She said she was standing with a group of about five Palestinian youths when the shooting occurred. The youths had been hurling some stones over buildings, toward an IDF outpost, with their slingshots. The IDF soldiers were not in view. She said one soldier suddenly appeared around a corner and she ran along with one of the youths toward a closed gate and tried to take cover in its shallow recess. Then she saw the soldier fire a single shot.
The army said it does not fire live ammunition unless troops are under immediate physical threat. Soldiers are under orders to fire at the legs unless the only way to stop an attack is by shooting to kill. Monakhov is one of more than a dozen journalists who have been wounded while covering the clashes in the territories, according to the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists.
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To: Antiwar Republican
good. maybe now the liberal media will stay the hell out of the way.
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To: Antiwar Republican, FITZ, Ange1923, sinkspur, SabrAmerican
Bump!
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To: go star go
So you are real big on killing people armed with cameras.
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To: belleshari
No, but if walk into a war zone, you do so at your own risk.
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To: belleshari
YOu kidding me? Did you see the Marines landing in Africa, crawling up onto the beach and there is the media with their bright lights and cameras telling the enemy that the Marines were on the beach. I'd have shot the whole bunch and fed them to the sharks.
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To: Hildy
These damn liberals' don't have a clue.
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To: Antiwar Republican
Yaaaawn. It's Israel.
Like the Albanians and Bosnian Muslims, the Zionists can do anything they want.
I'm surprised they haven't killed every rock thrower by now. After all, who's going to hold them accountable?
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To: go star go
Would you prefer not to know what's going on?
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To: belleshari
I can think of several more I'd like to send them!
Look how dangerous the wrong people are when merely "armed" with a microphone!
If that photographer wouldn't have been there, he/she wouldn't have gotten shot now, would they? It's a safe bet they weren't shot by Isreali's while they were near Isreali's, so they must have been over on the arab side.
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To: belleshari
DAMN STRAIGHT! OUR YOUNG SOLDIER'S LIVES ARE A HELL OF A LOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY RIGHT TO KNOW THE MEDIA"S TAKE ON ANYTHING! GET IT!
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To: Antiwar Republican
Israeli Army Admits They Shot AP Photographer
Damn! Really!!
I wonder if there's any way we can get some Israeli army units into the U.S.??
So you are real big on killing people armed with cameras.
No, I'm just real big on making them *wish* they were dead...
but it's hard to feel sorry for *anything* that works for a major media outlet...
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To: Antiwar Republican
Thanks for the flag.
The hate mongerers are on their way, I am sure.
Somehow, it will be the fault of the Palestinians.
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To: go star go
Do you have any young soldiers in the Arab-Israeli conflict?
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To: go star go
Can we send a few of our current crop of national reporters to Israel?
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To: belleshari
Do you have any young soldiers in the Arab-Israeli conflict?
This seems to mean that Israeli citizens do not have the right to value their soldiers. Shame...
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To: PhiKapMom
It's not like the ENTIRE media empire is entirely liberal. And the Israelis are not to blame as some of you say -- perhaps if the Palestinians didn't agitate them, the Israelis wouldn't have to resort to physical violence. As an Israeli immigrant here in America, I most likely have a different view than most Americans. I am a conservative, but the Israelis have tried to compromise for long enough; if the bastards don't realize that you need to compromise in order to create peace, then they shall continue to push their children to the front lines, and they will continue to be shot.
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To: uncleezno
Actually I am on your side! I am just fed up with some of our liberal media (which is most of the national broadcast press corps) and think they should give up their cushy jobs for awhile where they are telling us what to think and go see what the real world is like. Maybe if they actually saw the situation in Israel, they wouldn't be so quick to condemn Israel and take the side of the PLO like CNN has done!
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To: go star go
I don't advocate killing.
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To: passin pilgrim
Then you are opposed to armies. Right? Maybe we should just tell China to COME ON DOWN!
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To: passin pilgrim
and you're totally against the war on drugs. Right?
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To: passin pilgrim
and you're against the death penalty. Right.
and you're totally against abortion. Right?
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To: Angel923
Somehow, it will be the fault of the Palestinians.
Well, just remember - you suggested it!
Since the palies like to put their children in harm's way, is there any reason we shouldn't take for granted that they lured the American AP photographer into a hazardous area purely as a propaganda gambit?
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To: belleshari
"So you are real big on killing people armed with cameras"
I wonder if those reporters armed with cameras haven't done more damage to our country than enemies armed with rifles. Please - I did not say I agree with killing people - ANY people, just wondering.
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To: neutrino
Do you mean the Palestinians lured her and the Israelis shot her?
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To: PhiKapMom
They HAVE seen the situation... They are there not sitting at a computer in Des Moines.
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To: Macklew
In terms of the propaganda vaalue to keeping US money flowing to Israel, it probably would be better not to have any news media there with cameras.
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To: passin pilgrim
NO. She is a war zone and got shot. NEWS FLASH! PEOPLE GET SHOT IN WAR ZONES! SOMETHING TO DO WITH BULLITS FLYING AROUND!
Like I said. Liberals don't have a clue...
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To: passin pilgrim
In terms of the propaganda vaalue to keeping US money flowing to Israel, it probably would be better not to have any news media there with cameras.
In terms of the propaganda vaalue of nonsense this is the most nonssensical thing I've ever read. You're delusional.
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To: Antiwar Republican
Did someone say the Rosie was going to become a reporter in 2002?
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To: go star go, PHIKAPMOM, ANGE1923, Colonel Chadbert
It worked ____
Cato:Last-Minute Middle-East Money
The Clinton administration asked Congress yesterday to approve a last-minute, $750 million Middle East military and economic aid package, even as lawmakers struggle to complete work on the fiscal 2001 budget, according to The Washington Post.
The package includes $450 million for Israel to help support its withdrawal of troops from southern Lebanon and for other defense programs. The request came as a surprise to some GOP lawmakers. "We will carefully review the president's request, but we still have some substantial fiscal 2001 appropriations to conclude before we move to other subjects," said House Appropriations Committee Chairman C.W. Bill Young (R-Fla.).
In "U.S. Should Stay Out of Arab-Israeli Conflict," Research Fellow in Foreign Policy Studies Leon Hadar argues that the conflict does not threaten any significant national interests and that the United States would be best served by staying out of the ongoing hostilities in Israel.
CONTINUED AT THE LINK
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To: Antiwar Republican
Arky off and this is your shift?
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To: go star go
Sure they have a clue; they have their agenda! Notice Arky is one of the gang?
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To: passin pilgrim
Typical DemonRat spin. Clinton and his evil twin, Hillary are anti-Semites. They intend to personally destory Israel. Don't believe everything trick they put in front of you.
Some people are so gulible...
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To: passin pilgrim
With those wily palies one never knows. And considering how the Hildebeast has embraced them - well, maybe the palies did the shooting too!
{Grin}
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To: Chapita
Antiwar Republican is only "anti-war" as pertains to Israel defending Herself.
If Israel persists, Raimondo becomes "anti-war".
If the Palestinians destroy Israel...
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To: spectre
Never heard a peep out of them when it is a palestinian bomb dismantling Israelis.
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To: go star go
Can you imagine Jews with rocks standing up to heavily armed Palestinians who were shooting to kill? You people really suck!
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To: neutrino
And I also predicted that the hate mongerers would be here and voila, you are right on cue.
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To: passin pilgrim
Do you mean the Palestinians lured her and the Israelis shot her?
25 Posted on 11/17/2000 17:36:26 PST by passin pilgrim.
These hate mongerers are good at the "spin," aren't they?
They sound just like the Democrats, trying to shift blame away from where it belongs.
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To: pea eye
Can you imagine Jews with rocks standing up to heavily armed Palestinians who were shooting to kill? You people really suck!
38 Posted on 11/17/2000 19:37:00 PST by pea eye.
Well, the hate mongerers always come crawling out from under their rocks, don't they, pea eye?
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To: Angel923
And I also predicted that the hate mongerers would be here and voila, you are right on cue.
You rang?
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To: go star go
OutF***ingStanding!! The LIBERAL, LEFTIST, PRESS wants to HELP it's allies. They don't give a shi* about truth!! "Palestinian Boy Shot by Own Troops for Photo-Op!"
Send B. Shaw back to the Mid.East!
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To: CaptSkip
spoken like a true soldier! Out copulation standing! :-)
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To: Angel923
you are right on cue.
How kind of you to say so! I always strive to please!
And I certainly don't hate the palies; quite the contrary. I find their posturing amusing - although they do need to work on their whining. They aren't nearly creative enough.
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To: pea eye
Can you imagine Jews with rocks standing up to heavily armed Palestinians who were shooting to kill? You people really suck!
Damn straight! We Suck because we think Israel has the right to prevent the overthrow of their government. We's some evil sob's ain't we? Sh*t! Next thing you know we'll want the U.S. out of the U.N.!
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To: All the people here gloating over her getting shot
Do you even know this person, or what her beliefs are? Do you not want the media to document events? "Oh, she's in the media, and most of them are liberal, so let 'em die" - that's a great attitude that will surely win support for your cause and differentiate you from those hateful liberals.
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To: Angel923
I'll bet you thought British Prime Minister Chamblain's appeasments to the NAZI's prior to WWII a noble effort. Fool.
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To: go star go
I say we bring the IDF over here and thin out our AP ranks as well!
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To: bleudevil admits he can't read.
cite specifics.
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To: Naspino
run em through cnn a time or two...
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To: all
on the subject of media manipulation (and the adage that a picture is worth 1000 words - not enough is ever said about the media's failure to publish certain photos !
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To: bleudevil
Many 'journalists' died during the course of their work. Tis a occupational hazard. Tarawa, Iwo, El Salvador. It comes with the territory.
Dan Rather was accused;by the Soviets, of killing Afghan women and children during his reports from the region.
Were they lying? Do we need an investigation?
I'll say this: As long as an American Congressman, An American tourist, an American used car salesman is killed while traveling abroad, I shall save my tears for him. As the Russian say, When you live next to the graveyard you can't weep for everyone.
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To: bleudevil
See my post #43. The "Press", F***in' French Press in this case, were a part of a propaganda conspiracy. The video of the little Palei boy being shot (actually given-up by his coward father...wouldn't you have been ON TOP OF THE BOY TO SAVE HIM?) was documentation of "intentional friendly fire" for a cause. The video-photographer flinched due to his close proximity to the killer rifleman. The Israelis were a couple of football fields away. The bullet holes in the walls behind father and son were straight-in shots. The Israelis were at an oblique angle. Were they shot with 7.62 x 39mm (Stnd issue Palei) ammo or 5.56 Nato (Israeli) ammo.
Yes the press does a wonderful job!
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To: go star go
I can read just fine. You, specifically, seemed to be glad that she got shot.
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To: CaptSkip
"Palestinian Boy Shot by Own Troops for Photo-Op!"
Ha'aretz -
IDF General Mofaz says committee investigating al Dura killing is "private initiative"
MK Pines-Paz demands IDF step aside for "more objective" investigation and says "the IDF prefers to use a fictive re-enactment and try to absolve itself of responsibility"
IDF Chief of Staff Lieutenant General Shaul Mofaz said Tuesday at the weekly cabinet meeting that a committee investigating the October 2nd killing of 12-year-old Palestinian Muhammed al Dura was not initiatied by the Chief of Staff bureau nor by Mofaz himself. Mofaz said the investigation was most likely initiated by GOC Southern Command Major General Yom Tov Samia, and that he would check the reasons for the investigation.
Mofaz answered questions posed by MK's Ophir Pines-Paz (One Israel) and Dan Meridor (Center Party) following the publication of an article in Ha'aretz on Tuesday critical of the way the incident was being investigated. Meridor stated that the appointment of the committee heads and the committee's management were a result of poor judgment from its supervisors.
Pines-Paz demanded that the IDF relinquish direction of the investigation so that a more objective body could lead it. "It seems that instead of facing the situation and taking responsibility, the IDF prefers to use a fictive re-enactment and try to absolve itself of responsibility," he said.
7 November 2000
Anat Cygielman, Ha'aretz Correspondent
What's the definition of fictive?
fic·tive (fktv)
Of, relating to, or able to engage in imaginative invention.
Of, relating to, or being fiction; fictional.
Not genuine; sham.
Tuesday, November 7, 2000
Ha'aretz
By Anat Cygielman
IDF keeps shooting itself in the foot
Army efforts to interest journalists in a dubious probe of the al Dura case backfires
On Monday, October 23 the IDF staged a re-enactment of the October 1 gun battle at Netzarim junction in which 12-year-old Mohammed al Dura was killed.
Blocks were piled up at one of the army's firing ranges in the south, to simulate the wall where the boy and his father Jamal al Dura were pinned. A concrete barrel was brought in, to represent the one behind which the father and son crouched.
Soldiers sent to the firing range by the IDF Southern Commander, Major General Yom Tov Samia, stood on top of a dirt embankment and fired shots at the wall and barrel, using a variety of different weapons.
Two Israeli citizens took part in the re-enactment - Nahum Shahaf, a physicist, and Yosef Duriel, an engineer.
A film crew from the prestigious American news program "60 Minutes" was there, having been given exclusive rights to film the replay of the Dura shooting.
In the past two weeks a number of reports have circulated about new IDF findings in its investigation of the killing at Netzarim. These reports have stirred considerable interest in Israel and elsewhere, because for the Palestinians, the death of Mohammed al Dura - captured by a French television crew - has become the symbol of the Al-Aqsa Intifada.
The dramatic footage of his death has been seen in every corner of the world. Palestinian television runs an edited version - pictures of an IDF soldier shooting have been spliced into the original footage. Poignant photographs of the father and son have been plastered along the sides of roads throughout the West Bank. The Cairo newspaper Akbar al Yom has reported that the city authorities have decided to name the street where the Israeli embassy is located after Mohammed al Dura.
Shortly after the boy's death, the IDF acknowledged there was "a high probability" that IDF gunfire ended his young life and, speaking for the IDF, Deputy Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon expressed his sorrow over the tragedy. Assuming that the damage to Israel's reputation was irreversible, and knowing it faced the realities of more children dying, the IDF was inclined to put the al Dura matter to rest.
However, senior officers in the Southern Command were bitter about Israel's hasty decision to accept responsibility for the death. As days passed reports circulated that they were increasingly convinced IDF soldiers did not shoot and kill the boy. Shahaf and Duriel also believed the matter had been settled too quickly.
Two days after the incident, Duriel wrote in Ha'aretz: "The IDF spokesman deserves a prize for stupidity ... Ten minutes after the incident a normal spokesman for a normal army would have released a categorically formulated statement saying that provocateurs opened fire against IDF soldiers, behind the back of a the ambulance driver who tried to save him. All this was done to score propaganda points by depicting murderous behavior on the part of IDF soldiers."
After Ha'aretz published these remarks, Shahaf phoned Duriel and suggested they investigate whether it was necessarily true that IDF soldiers shot the boy. The two were acquainted - they met when they jointly reviewed Shahaf's findings on an altogether different matter, the Rabin assassination. Shahaf claims to have in his possession "dramatic photographs which change the picture with respect to Yigal Amir's involvement in the murder." Shahaf and Duriel discussed ways of disseminating these Rabin assassination materials.
With regard to Mohammed al Dura, the pair studied the angle of the shots fired by IDF men and concluded that the claims of the boy being killed by Israeli army bullets are dubious. Shahaf, who says he is a reservist in an intelligence division that deals with visual material, left a number of messages for Southern Commander Samia, asking for a meeting.
He made his initial call to the major general after learning from the media that the IDF planned to demolish structures around the Netzarim junction. He warned against "erasing" physical evidence at the site - such as the wall and concrete barrel, key pieces of evidence he wanted preserved.
He says that when Samia got back to him, it was too late to effect such evidence preservation measures.
But anyway, the Southern Commander agreed to meet Shaham and Duriel and this took place, Duriel says, on October 19. The two went over their calculations with the IDF major general and urged him to initiate a review. They offered their professional services, gratis. Shahaf emphasizes this was designed as an "impartial" inquiry. He says Samia accepted his terms - as he put it to Samia, "nobody in the army can intervene in my activity and analysis. Samia has administrative responsibility, "and I have responsibility for carrying out the project. I do the tests, I decide who should be involved in them. The army only helps me when I need assistance."
Shahaf adds that he agreed to one caveat on his independent authority: "The IDF decides when to release the findings." The pair did not get a formal assignment from the army to carry out the task, because of legal complications, Shahaf adds.
Five days after the meeting with Samia, the first re-enactment was staged at the IDF firing range. As the scene was re-enacted, Duriel gave an interview to the American television crew. He expounded his thesis in front of the "60 Minutes" camera. Al-Dura's death was staged with the aim of producing an image which would become a symbol and besmirch Israel's reputation around the world. Actors in the staged incident included Palestinian gunmen, a French television cameraman (who received "production instructions"), and the father Jamal al Dura ("who apparently didn't understand that the act would end in the murder of his son"). Duriel mentioned that the father can be seen gesturing to the photographer in the film.
When Samia learned about Duriel's interview, he ordered that the engineer be removed from the inquiry.
Shahaf says "I supported Duriel, but I think he made a tactical error, because you have to prove whatever you allege."
Shahaf prodded ahead with the investigation, without his estranged partner. More tests were arranged - tests Shahaf stresses were done with exacting scientific rigor. "All results will meet the standards of scientific inquiry," he says. He says that he already has final results in hand that are "very interesting."
Asked about the professional character of this al-Dura shooting investigation, and about the participants who have taken part in it, the IDF spokesman refused to comment.
Shahaf says he has promised not to divulge details, neither about the results of the investigation, nor the testing procedures followed.
Despite the physicist's reticence, the work methods seem puzzling. During the first re-enactment, the distance between the IDF "position" (the dirt embankment upon which the soldiers stood) and the replicated barrel was only half of that separating the real IDF position and the Duras at Netzarim.
Duriel says additional re-enactments were staged to rectify this distance issue.
Did ballistics experts take part in the tests?
Shahaf concedes he is no authority on ballistics - however, he says, "as a physicist I read scientific material, both theoretical and experimental, and try to consult with several experts in this area, and so I have basically finished all the stages necessary in learning this topic."
Yossi Almog, a retired senior police officer who specialized in evidence-gathering, says: "I don't believe the IDF would release a conclusion revising a previous declaration without first conducting a thorough examination, using the best professionals in the security establishment. I wouldn't rely on an approach made by some anonymous person. I might welcome that person's initiative, but I certainly wouldn't accept his conclusions without conducting a systematic, orderly examination, under the best possible conditions. Anything less than that isn't serious."
In Shahaf's view, "the fact that the [investigation] committee is impartial and the IDF doesn't interfere in its work, is an advantage. When the need arises, I turn to all sorts of authorities to get feedback. Any decision about whom to consult is my own. Under the Manhattan Project - which developed the atom bomb - a scientist was used to lead the effort, and from the moment he was selected , he chose people to help as he saw fit. Choosing 20 people in advance to investigate the matter wouldn't be prudent. Somebody who has sufficient knowledge and scientific experience should be chosen at the outset, and then that person should select consultants as he sees fit."
Shahaf continues: "If you don't want the committee to make any headway, then you should appoint a hundred people instead of three."
Among other consultants, Shahaf sought out Yitzhak Ramon, an engineer from Haifa who published a letter in Ha'aretz claiming that the films provide evidence the bullets which struck the father and son weren't fired from the IDF post. Had the shots been fired by the IDF soldiers who were positioned to the side of the Duras, the bullet holes in the wall couldn't have been so circular and "clean," Ramon contended.
Charles Enderlin, director of France 2's Israel bureau, raises additional questions concerning the methodology of the IDF inquiry. French television has original footage shot at Netzarim - the film has been shown to Ha'aretz, and it includes shots of what happened at the junction before and after al Dura's death, as well as photographs of the wall and the bullet-ridden concrete barrel taken after the incident, and an interview with the father from a Gaza hospital. This is evidence which is crucial in any investigation of the al Dura death.
Shahaf asked Enderlin for permission to use the material, but he didn't mention that his intention was to conduct a professional investigation of the event. Instead, Shahaf presented himself as a media professional. In a fax to Enderlin, Shahaf wrote that he wanted the full, unedited version of the footage since the film would "enhance the understanding of the background and atmosphere which preceded the killing of the Palestinian boy."
Shahaf added in the fax that "since the material is likely to be presented to professional media forums, including film schools, we need the full footage, including pictures that are hard to look at, including gunshot wounds and the like." Enderlin rejected Shahaf's request.
Subsequently he was stunned to discover that Shahaf is affiliated with an IDF investigation. He says when the IDF spokesman later phoned and asked to receive the film materials, France 2 said they would be released only under formal court order.
Duriel is angry with the IDF. He can't fathom why the army isn't "publishing the truth."
Each day that goes by, he says, increases the damage to Israel's name.
He hints that the IDF has an interest in holding back the disclosure of the investigation's findings. He also suggests that the IDF has kept concealed from the public a crucial fact - next to the father and son, he claims, there was a second site from which Palestinians fired at the IDF. On Duriel's calculations, the bullets which killed Mohammed al Dura had to have been fired from this second Palestinian position.
Asked why the IDF is keeping secret crucial facts which would apparently exonerate its soldiers, Duriel is evasive. "The answer is explosive," he says, refusing to elaborate.
The IDF has to decide when and how it will release the investigation's results. The army tried to stir some interest among some American journalists in the findings, but the attempt backfired - the professionals were not impressed by what they heard and decided not to use it.
In choosing Shahaf and Duriel as partners in the al Dura inquiry, the IDF has again shot itself in the foot. Even if the investigation and its conclusions should pass muster on scientific and professional grounds, they simply won't be accepted by the public.
That might make little scientific sense - but it's a hard public-relations fact.
Duriel's ill-conceived "60 Minutes" interview was a case in point. The police officer, Yossi Almog, put it best: "If you want to release some conclusion that carries weight, it is important that the investigation be carried out by the most professional staff the state can put together."
Why, then, did the IDF decide to involve Shahaf in its professional review? The IDF spokesman just refuses to relate to questions of this sort. child, and made sure he would be killed in front of cameras; and after the boy, they killed.
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To: CaptSkip
I'll bet you thought British Prime Minister Chamblain's appeasments to the NAZI's prior to WWII a noble effort. Fool.
48 Posted on 11/17/2000 20:23:43 PST by CaptSkip.
Chamberlain WAS a fool.
YOUR bet is a fool's bet...but they you resort to name calling. That's always a weapon of the weak minded.
If the shoe fits....
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To: bleudevil
You specifically seem to not understand what happens in war zones. It could be ignorance or it could be willful deception. People get shot in war zones.
Psst... that's one reason most intelligent people don't seek out war zones...
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To: Angel923
What? No response for go star go?
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To: Arky
Just watch the original video...fool. Yes 60 Min. and CBS are so UN-Biased. You are sounding like the hundreds of Clinton/Gore lawyers...another fav of this administration!
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To: CaptSkip
See #56.
Would the mini-state of Israel with a total population a small fraction of the population of Mexico City be swaggering around with such a giant chip on it's shoulder if it's government didn't firmly believe that Clinton would commit U.S. armed forces to fight and die for it in the event it has finally bitten off more than it can chew alone? Here's how most of the world now perceives it.
Isn't it long past time for the United States to stop meddling in the dysfunctional Semite family perpetual warfare that's been going on for thousands of years, get all American armed forces out of harms way in the entire region pronto and let the participants resolve this most recent flareup of their historical feuding among themselves while the U.S. politicians hereafter abide by George Washington's stern warning?
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To: pea eye
Yep, they're baaaack.
Do you think that they teach their children how to be so hate-filled? It's kind of sad and pathetic to see so much hate in these FReepers.
No wonder Jim R. dislikes these Israeli threads so much. It must sadden him to see his site disrupted by such racism and bigotry. It belongs in the sewer. I think these hate mongerers are actually proud of their hatred and rage toward the Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs. Don't you think so?
Do you think that they might have the white hoods in their closets? No, no hoods. Their hats are merely the usual pointed dunce caps.
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To: Angel923
If Al Frankin can call Rush (actually title his book) "a big fat idiot..." then I too claim "poetic license" here...sorry.
If you can't stand the heat.....
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To: go star go
What? No response for go star go?
NO! You don't get a response.. You're a BIG MEANIE! and a HATEMONGER!
So there.. HA!
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To: bleudevil
These hate mongerers come crawling out from under their rocks to spew their vile racist bigotry. They really get off on it.
You mustn't mind them. They are rather sick and pathetic, their logic blinded by their hatred of the Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs.
Every once in a while they go to far and Jim R. dumps the thread and/or throws one of them off the site. They come and go, with regularity.
That kind of mental deviance eventually negates them. They can't hold all that poisonous hatred in their minds without it burning them up, making holes in their egos and hearts.
Sad, isn't it?
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To: Arky
My God you really are a fool. The IDF does NOT in any way NEED the US Military. The IDF is the PREEMINANT military fighting force on this planet! Enemies on every side! A tie between the best of the best in the US. You should be so lucky as to have the quality of the IDF extend throughout the ranks of the US.
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To: Angel923
Let's see....who was the loving leftest that called for the stoning to death and murder of wives and children on national TV?
Oh yes, it was Alec Baldwin on Conan spewing vitriol about Rep. Henry Hyde.
Sucha nice man.
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To: Arky
It's useless to talk with these fools, Arky, useless. Their minds are closed and their logic is clouded...by all their hate and rage.
It's like talking to drunks or drug addicts. You're just talking to the chemicals.
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To: Angel923
Actually, they sound like Allen Durshowitz to me.
When they can't support their argument with facts, they are abusive.
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To: passin pilgrim
Actually, they sound like Allen Durshowitz to me.
When they can't support their argument with facts, they are abusive.
69 Posted on 11/17/2000 21:21:38 PST by passin pilgrim.
You're right.
Sometimes they sound as demented as James Carville.
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To: Jhoffa_
well at least i ain't a turd. a communist turd. :-)
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To: Angel923
I want you. Right now. To point out one thing I posted anywhere on FreeRepublic that was in support of hate. Do it now. I have very little time or patience for idiots.
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To: Angel923
Well, its disappointing. One sort of expects Americans to be educated and have a sense of justice.
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To: passin pilgrim
I want you to help your little friend...
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To: belleshari
Shut up and help your friends point out something hateful that I said.
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To: belleshari
Well, its disappointing. One sort of expects Americans to be educated and have a sense of justice.
73 Posted on 11/17/2000 21:26:44 PST by belleshari.
You are correct, it's disappointing.
But, what can you expect with the culture we have now? Low standards of behavior, low expectations of language on a public forum. Their sense of justice is regulated by their relative morality....again with the low standards, of ethics, values and morality.
They show the quality of their education, character, integrity, decency, upbring and manners, or lack of them, when they spew such hatred, bigotry and racism, don't they?
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To: Why don't yall call a meeting.
you might be able to come up with a committee response...
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To: Angel923, you should your lack of original thought.
talking to someone else with the intent to make a point with me accomplishes nothing other that show fear of confronting the obstacle at hand. talk to me. not you pal.
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To: go star go
LOL!
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To: Angel923... run Forest run...
that meeting is taking way too long. talk to me...
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To: Jhoffa_
What's that LOL sh*t? Are you insulting me you communist turd? :-)
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To: Angel923
Angel,
why not respond to my Alec Baldwin post? Or does he fit your ramblings about hate and you don't know what to say?
Did you catch Southpark Wed. nite? A real keeper. Tape it this weekend from the repeats. It's all about you.
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To: go star go
"good. maybe now the liberal media will stay the hell out of the way."
All the other journalists know they can sign up for war zones, but their lust for fame and power is not as great as their basic cowardice and desire to not get their hands dirty. Besides, they can stay safely ensconced at U.S. media outlets, protected by our military, our laws and our way of life, and try to destroy America while butt-licking Democrats.
She was running with five rock-throwing Palestinians. Has she mailed in her absentee PBC ballot yet? (Sounds for sure like she is a PBC voter, or else those who are suprised at her injury are PBC voter types.)
Righteous indignation over this unfortunate event doesn't work here, however. In fact, it reeks of anti-Semitism and the rampant anti-Isreal hatred expressed by the left for decades---in most recent years best articulated by Hillary. I have already read more outrage over this misfortune---which happened to someone who VOLUNTEERED to be there, in harm's way---than you will read about dozens victims of Palestinian terrorism.
Journalists who become casualties of war are many and are widely known. Many journalists return safely from covering wars and become big stars. She was there for one reason: personal gain. I will reserve my sympathy for Israelis fighing for, and often losing, their lives.
That we have a strong ally in Isreal is a thorn in the side of liberals everywhere, who would prefer a pro-left Palestinian state that could eventually overrun the oil-producers and ally with China and Russian communists.
By the way, I am not Jewish. I am a redneck Baptist. But besides the fact that Jews and I worship the same God and follow His Law, Israel is an ally of the West and of our way of life. A Senator Hillary---and the subsequent possible PRESIDENT Hillary---is committed to the destruction of Israel and its replacement by a Palestinian state. And a healthy hatred of the Bible, of America, of Western tradition and of Judeo-Christian values is part-and-parcel of this crusade by the left. (Hillary's laughing at the Jews in New York who voted for her; I had always heard of "self-hating Jews," and these must be some of those. It must be a variation of "the Stockholm Syndrome," in which the tormented defend, embrace and enable their tormentors. But that's for another post.)
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To: CaptSkip
i'm afraid that between them, their dads, their brothers, and every man they know they ain't two balls. they gotta call a meeting now cause we all know the balless among us can't make a decision without a committee vote.
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To: gg188
In fact, it reeks of anti-Semitism and the rampant anti-Isreal hatred
Thank you. That is the point of their redirection. I guess they think they're talking to frogs. We are not fooled by their games. I'm ready to put them in their place. Only problem is we can't get them to respond.
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To: go star go
I would never insult a fellow hatemonger Mr. Star..
But from one hatemonger to another, you are wasting your time here.
This is the realm of Rocks that aren't lethal, men who would never dream of dragging children into martyrdom and Wars governed by Playground rules..
This place is about flowers in gun barrels and the vain hope that we can all just smoke a big doobie and forget about our differences..
Also, anyone who dosen't agree is a racist, jetk, hatemonger, bigot who refuses to think rationally, blah, blah etc, etc, so-on-and-so-forth..
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To: go star go
"Typical DemonRat spin. Clinton and his evil twin, Hillary are anti-Semites. They intend to personally destory Israel. Don't believe everything trick they put in front of you. "
go, go star go, go. (Did I make that clear.)
Your replies have been spot-on, right on the money. Thanks.
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To: CaptSkip
COPULATION A!
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To: gg188
Angel923 & belleshari must be in "Private Time". Go Hillary!!! Go,Go GO! Never respond to the tuff questions!
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To: Jhoffa_
Also, anyone who dosen't agree is a racist, jetk, hatemonger, bigot who refuses to think rationally, blah, blah etc, etc, so-on-and-so-forth..
I think their house of cards is about to crumble. Even if it doesn't, I'll fart when I want to fart; I'll flirt when I want to flirt; I'll support the Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts; I'll even support U.S. soverientt. They'll just have to shoot me or kisss my ass.
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To: CaptSkip
They had to call a committee meeting to figure out what to do. Robots are like that...
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To: go star go
sans balls...LOL!
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To: go star go
I think their house of cards is about to crumble.
Indeed.. but maybe we can just cast off all this hatred and bring peace to the region through song!
Koom-by-ahh Al Gore, Koom-by-ahh!
Everyone!
(hey, it makes as much sense as rock hurling mobs that aren't dangerous.. so what the hell)
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To: Jhoffa_
You know, I was thinking of throwing cow manure at Gore if he manages to steal the election. You rekon the SS will shoot me? Nawww... they would do that...
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To: Where'd the anti-semites go?
RUN FOREST RUN!
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To: Don't go Forest...
how long is tha meeting going to last?
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To: go star go
I dunno, Angel says Rocks aren't lethal.. (they are warm, fuzzy things.. think of them as nerf balls painted in earth tones)
So if rocks are safe, cow crap must be doubly so..
Go ahead and do it.. if they question you tell them I said it's okay.
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To: CaptSkip
To the left, conservative and pro-American means "hatred of the Palestinians/Muslims/Arabs," knowingly assigning to us in error the very thing Hillary's ilk is guilty of: hatred of anything Western, American, anti-communist, Biblical, moral and basically even remotely caucasian!
"Guilt and Self-loathing in Liberal-land"
(Isn't it pathetic!)
LIBERALS are the ones playing the hatred game, then projecting it onto their opponents. Typical---and highly effective---Clinton tactics.
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To: Jhoffa_
What the hell is the name of that guy from the Bible that was killed by a rock from his brother and that truck driver in LA during the Rodney King riots that got his head smashed by a rock? Those don't count though. Those were special "you deserved it" rocks. Doesn't that seem to be their position?
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To: Jhoffa_
BTW, I got creases in my skull that you can feel with your hand from rocks. They hurt and they can be deadly.
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To: gg188
I'm starting to get afraid now. Dey bin meatin for a long tyme. They might come out with something brillinat that will make us feel like fools.
Well... if they can find a couple of balls...
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To: go star go
If you are refering to Cain and Abel, I don't know that it is clearly spelled out that Cain used a rock.. My version simply reads "Attacked and killed him"
There is the tale of David and Goliath however and as far as that trucker goes, I almost forgot about him.
I fail to see how anyone can say that rocks aren't a potentially lethal weapon after witnessing that.
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To: Jhoffa_
All join hands...It use to be Koom bah yahhh, "MY LORD", koom by yahhh...
It's so appropriate that we now bow down to AlGore in stead of MyLord!
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To: Jhoffa_
I fail to see how anyone can say that rocks aren't a potentially lethal weapon after witnessing that. Well... you have to consider all that physchobable stuff. You see the 'thrower' thought he wasn't harming nobody so he should be able to throw rocks till someone gets kilt. Then we switch and say he was OPPRESSED. See. It's really pretty easy if you have no morrality...
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To: CaptSkip
It's so appropriate that we now bow down to AlGore in stead of MyLord!
Didn't want to take his name in vain.. But Gore OTOH, I would stencil his name on the bottom of a urinal..
So, he won by default.
:)
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To: CaptSkip
What'd you do? Fart? You scared off the anti-semites?
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To: go star go
Probably grew up in an abusive, religious household.. One that cast dispersions on members of the gay community and was just generally intolerant..
Poor Rock Thrower, who can blame him, eh?.. (sniff)
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To: Jhoffa_
You're kidding right? I thought only white boys were screwed up. You mean the balck boy then busted the truck drived in the head with a rock had something wrong in his thought processes. YOU'SE A HATER!
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To: Jhoffa_
nebber mind. you'se a communist turd.
[ Reply | Private Reply | To 107 | Top | Last ]
To: go star go
YOU'SE A HATER!
LOL!
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To: go star go
did you know there's a offical name for people that don't approve of Clinton's immorality. They call it "player hater'.
[ Reply | Private Reply | To 108 | Top | Last ]
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